These concerns may be caused by a sticking TCC Regulator Valve (Figure 5). Structurally, the 8L90 is similar to the 8L45, except that it is made to handle more power and torque. While working on a 2017-2018 Ford F150/Raptor, 2018 Expedition, Mustang, and Lincoln Navigator equipped with a 10R80 transmission, you may experience erratic TCC operation, or a TCC shudder concern. * An extension housing p/n 8673406 (old p/n 24214689) is available for the TH700R4/4L60 transmission that moves the rear transmission mount to the same position as a TH400 (short-style 4" tail) or TH200-4R transmission. Beginning in 2010, all 2500 and 3500 Express / Savana with a 4.8L or 6.0L engine used the 6L90 transmission. This pan fits the GM 6L90, 6L90E transmission, typically found on these vehicles: . This is a completely new and different transmission compared to the 4L80E. Gm hydro 10 speed. Engine torque rating increases minimally, but the output torque rating of the transmission jumps up by nearly 220 ft. lbs. But keeping the engine in its ideal RPM range allows the 10L80 transmission to operate with nearly the efficiency of a CVT transmission. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Thank you. The subject is a rather common electrical fault that may occur on the PCS line pressure solenoid circuit, which results in max line pressure. The 1-piece aluminum case houses a slim 260mm 10L80 torque converter inside the integrated bell housing. The 8L90 and 6L80 have the same size output shaft and mounting pattern. The GM transmission is the 10L80, which is available in several models as well. GM 10L80: A new kind of pump noise. But the replacement of this assembly requires new bolts. As with earlier Hydramatics, the 6L80 will accept either the 258mm or 300mm torque converters. Before we get started, lets cover the basics. The 6L80 Hydra-Matic transmission is a 6 speed automatic transmission manufactured by General Motors. Where the original 4L80E First gear is 2.48:1, TCI created a 2.97:1 First gear ratio. DESIGNED FOR GEN V LT1 & LT4 ONLY. Unlike previous shift solenoids, they are mechanical in nature in that no transmission fluid passes through them (Figure 2). The 6 speed takes a fair amount of trans tunnel work and my Holley Dominator ECU can't control it. The solenoids can be replaced separately, but only with the same type of solenoid. I'd be modding it to a FBO car with cam and converter eventually. But I was su unhappy with it I sold a bunch of parts and began changing the built. 6R80E Chevy Transmission Kit ATI has the first true externally controlled, 6-speed transmission package for your Chevrolet powered vehicle! This 7-3/8" long extension housing can eliminate transmission crossmember modifications when replacing a TH400 or TH200-4R transmission with a 4L60 assembly. The 6L80 is doubtless a very successful OEM transmission, and a terrific conversion transmission in the right Jeeps and situations. yr=d.getFullYear(); CDT 10L80 Bench Rebuild. 6L80E / 6L90E 4-5-6 Clutch. Jeff Smith has had a passion for cars since he began working at his grandfather's gas station at the age 10. Copyright 2006-2020 GEARS Magazine. Engine torque estimate: Directly affects shift pressure control, TCC control, and transmission diagnostics. Internally they are very different but at least with the 8l90 you do not need to completely disassemble the transmission to convert to 4wd from 2wd. * 10L90E TRANSMISSION. Hi, im doing a swap from Yukon 2019 to 1987 Regal. While Sonnax makes every effort to ensure the accuracy of technical articles at time of publication, we assume no liability for inaccuracies or for information which may become outdated or obsolete over time. Thread starter 2nazty; Start date Nov 26, 2018; Nov 26, 2018 #1 2. Finally I am looking for a Chevrolet Caprice PPV to build into a fun road trip sedan for the family with either a LS3 or L92 engine block, stock LSA crank, rods, pistons, ARP hardware through out with CNC LS3/L92 heads and a pair of turbos with a goal of 750-950 horsepower at the wheels. Dimension "C" is the distance from the bellhousing to the center of the transmission mounting pad. Note, all models will have a warmer. I have a 2012 Corvette Grand Sport Auto trans. It all comes down to the extra rigidity and flatness of the surfaces. The new Third gear in the TCI trans is 1.57:1, which is then overdriven to create Fourth gear which is 1.57 x 0.75 = 1.18:1 which is just 18 percent away from direct drive 1:1, which becomes Fifth gear. Ive not done the math on total surface area, but its likely the clutch would not last long engaging 450 hp. Always inspect the sump for possible evidence of debris that could indicate the pump drive gears could be failing. With this in mind, there are (3) major groups of failure management strategies that are used when certain diagnostic trouble codes are present. It also contains a durable transmission pan, reliable gear seat, EPC, a 13-vane pump assembly, high-performance cooler, hardened stator shaft with rings and specialized control solenoids. Inspect the warmer for damage and related lines for leaks (Figure 4). Developing any new technology will cost an absolute ton of money, which why its not unusual for car companies to co-develop things like chassis and transmissions. lost energy) are reduced by only having two of the six clutches open at any time. Internal hydraulic leakage, hard part failures and contaminated/failed solenoids are all issues that can plague units, some more than others. When cutting the JMBX open, converter rebuilders report that a high percentage of units show extreme damage due to the clutch piston and front cover crashing into each other (Figure 1). 3. The complaints may be difficult to duplicate. We pride ourselves in staying at the forefront of our industry, technology, research & development and our commitment to you, our customer. The 6L80 has surprised us power transmission aficionados with its wholesale adoption of new and very different technologies. It is a heavy duty version of the 6L80 six speed automatic with a strengthened input gearset which has two additional pinion gears for six total and a strengthened output gearset that uses wider gears than the 6L80. The complaint A 2005 Ford F350 with the 6.0 liter diesel engine and 5R110W transmission has set a P0753 Pressure Control Solenoid A Electrical Fault code and a P2700 Transmission Friction Element A Apply Time Out Of Range code. and can weigh up to ~230 lbs. : 18-NA-355 Special Tools DT-52263 Transmission Fluid Exchange Kit: DT-52263-1 Block Assembly (includes fluid drain Beginning with the F-150, it then made its way into the Mustang and the Expedition (as well as the Everest, and upcoming Ranger reboot). * WILL ALLOW USE . The way the power is applied is different than the 4L80E / TH-400. They are listed as Type A, Type B, and Type C diagnostic trouble codes. If you are tearing down a new job and cant find any hard part failure that would result in the amount of metal you have in the pan, its just about certain that the inside of the torque converter looks like the disaster area shown in Figure 1. For the most part, this transmission has been phased out by the 8L90E already, but is still in prodution. to 885 ft. Problem Owners may experience an ATF leak coming from under the vehicle. I believe AFM has been replaced with DFM Not for fact nojust was basing on the truck. In a similar vein, GM Gen. IV engines do not always take kindly to other transmissions such as manuals (essentially no longer available from GM), and most automatics that predate the 6L80. Your cooperation with this program is greatly appreciated. ** Currently 10L80 units are 2017+ so are dealer-only or salvage yard only. Repeat Steps 3 through 9 six (6) additional times. 6L80/6L90/8L90/10L90 AN Transmission Cooler Manifold Our Price: $150.00 Out of stock We now offer a convenient AN trans cooler manifold solution for the 6L80, 6L90, 8L90, and 10L90 transmission. The band number is printed on the solenoids in the location shown and will be a 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 (Figure 3). Objectively, it is a fairly simple repair: simply remove the transmission pan, remove the valve body, unbolt the TEHCM from the valve body and install the new one. Accelerate from a stop with light throttle (15%), ensuring that upshifts 1st through 8th occur at engine speeds between 1300-1600 rpm. The 6L80 features a generously deep first gear for an automatic, making for favorably powerful starts from a standing stop. Seems like the 6 speed auto would be better for the torque curve. The transmission lacks a direct-drive, but features two overdrive gears. The question is will the 10L80 be as strong as the 10L90? Change Your Address, Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gears Magazine. Once there is any metal-to-metal on the TCC surface at all, its usually a short time before debris wipes out the clutch completely. Its extremely important to scan all modules for codes and address those codes first! A remanufactured 10L80 on the other hand, is completely remanufactured, and its designed to exceed the manufacturers original specifications. Engine speed: Directly affects shift scheduling, Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) control, line pressure, and transmission diagnostics. Since buying the car I have been trying to learn a bit about the auto trans. The thicker JMBX piston cant conform to the cover (like it can in the 4L60-E TMBX), and at a commanded slip rate of approximately 50 RPMs in lockup, there is ultimately metal-to-metal contact that occurs between the front cover and the piston. The transmission can also signal the engine to drop power during a shift if there's a possibility of clutch damage. In the TMBX, the damper is on the transmission side of the clutch piston, and in the JMBX, the damper is located on the engine side of the piston. Required fields are marked *. Solution This 10L80 transmission problem could be the result of a failed oil cooler line fitting retaining bolt. Trans temps climbed to 195 and has stayed there ever since. You might run into a lack of valve body repair options. ! First, check for updated programming for the TCM strategy. Members GM now also offers both 8- and 10-speed automatics. Would love your thoughts, please comment. It is now on week number 7 at the dealer for warranty and the GM engineers are running that show only allowing the dealer to replace what they deem necessary. As such, Sonnax has a good view of both sides of the pump, so we are intimately involved with engineering solutions to both trending transmission AND converter issues. AM-DT-51190 threads into that port and connects to the J-45096 TransFlow. 2018 YUKON DENALI 64K ON THE MILES HAS A CLICKING NOISE AT A IDLE LIKE A CRACKED FLYWHEEL OR SOMETHING BOUNCING IN THE PAN CHEVY PUT NEW EXHAUST ON IT THINKING IT WAS IN THE CONVERTER ALSO PUT A NEW PUMP IN THE TRANS THIS SOUND IS NOT THE SAME EVERY TIME SOUNDS LIKE A BOUNCING BOLT SINCE THE PUMP WAS IN STALLED NOW SEEMS TO OLY MAKE NOISE WHEN WARMED UP MY SON IS A TRANSMISSION MAN HE SAYS IT A SOUND THEY MAKE WHEN THEY ARE SUCKING AIR NOT SURE ON THAT I WAS A MECHANIC FOR MANY MANY YEARS CANT FIGURE THIS OUT NOR CAN GM ANY THOUGHTS ON THIS ? Our theory as to why 6L80, 6L90 converters fail like they do is related to the shape and thickness of the JMBX piston. Its like wheres Waldo. - Critical wear areas and vacuum test locations: GM 10L and Ford 10R series. It probably wont do much for the elapsed time which is all that really matters. But the cause he discovered was related to the pump. The 6L80 in its transaxle version for the Corvette. $499.00. Our simulations reveal that this is worth anywhere from 0.10 to perhaps 0.15-second in a quarter-mile comparison between a stock 4L80E and a TCI Six-Speed. Most of us have either seen or heard of the new 10-speed transmission Ford is offing behind the 2.3L EcoBoost, 2.7L V6, 3.5L EcoBoost, 5.0L gas, and 3.0L Power Stroke Diesel engines. The overall First gear ratio is 2.48 x 4.10 = 10.17:1. So the service life is limited, and the warranty will only last 1-2 years. Getrag 260 5-speed longitudinal manual made by Getrag. Knowledge is power use it to protect your customer, your unit and yourself for miles and miles to come. All of the 1998-up cases used behind the LS family of engines used the separate bellhousing style of case. Its the best of both worlds. Transmission Pan Bolt Set Chevy 6L80E 6L90E 8L80E 8L90E 10L80E 10L90E 18pcs. The TCM is actually even programmed to adjust its operation for transmission clutch wear. Now controlled by computers, the E series transmission allowed for a wide range of tuning options. It was created to help GM meet ever more demanding CAFE regulations on their vehicles. The dealership was able to provide this part rather quickly. Its a single-disc, non-captive clutch unit that is somewhat similar to late 300mm 4L60-E converters. We had to use a spacer from Advanced Adapters but otherwise they are the same. Although the basic engineering is the same, the GM 10L80 and Ford 10R80 each have proprietary control software, along with a few other differences that are suited for each specific application. Im not tuned ( not yet anyway), however, if I knew then what I know today, I probably would have went for the M6. The TCM-2650 is compatible with the GM 6L45/50, 6L80/90 . I have a 2wd 2000 regular cab stepside bed Silverado that used to make closer to 600-650 wheel horsepower with the D1-SC Procharger and 4L80E. JT. While not new to the 6L80, it uses an Input Speed Sensor to monitor input speeds to compare against engine speed and Output Shaft Sensor speed, using this data to adjust shift speeds under instantly detectable conditions. Efficiency and performance are the two main goals behind the GM 10L80 transmission. Statements on 6L80E trans with LS engine. Theres also a unique internal thermal bypass that allows the transmission to warm up faster, reducing fuel consumption on cold starts. By utilizing more gearing, the 6L80 keeps the car in its power band longer, improving the MPG of the vehicle between 4-7% (over the previous generation fours speed transmissions) depending on the configuration of the vehicle that its in. Page 2 August, 2019 Bulletin No. After an internal inspection of your transmission, we will notify you of any hard part damage that will carry an additional cost. 10R80 transmission swap? It is a dog in the summer time. The 6L80 began manufacture in 2005 for release in 2006 model year GM vehicles, persisting until at least 2016 in both 6L80 and 6L90 versions. This seems to indicate that there will be other 10L80 transmissions that will be experiencing this same new kind of pump noise condition. See the pictures below to help you tell if you have the right transmission. Each clutch is controlled by a corresponding shift solenoid A-F. The exceptions to this would be the 2006-2014 Corvette, 2006 G8, 2010-2015 Camaro, and the Chevrolet SS. var d=new Date(); I & II Electronic challenges exist when mixing and matching the 6L80 as they must be matched to their particular engine. In contrast, when the 10-speed transmission is at heavy or max throttle, the small steps keep the engine closer to the horsepower peak for the best performance. The 10R80 doesn't have a traditional "front" pump. Sticking valves and sticking CIDAS solenoids are becoming more common concerns with these units. Sonnax is an industry leader in the cutting edge design, manufacture and distribution of the highest quality products to the automotive aftermarket, commercial vehicle industries, and industrial sectors utilizing drivetrain technology. How is this different from the GM 6L80E transmission that is used in the Corvette or in the newer GM trucks? Other common 6L80E transmission problems include: Note: The mounting pad is usually a part of the extension housing, but the graphic shows it on the maine case. The location of the warmer and the routing of the hoses can vary widely. The overall First gear ratio is deeper at 2.97:1 which means the car builder can leave a taller rear gear ratio in the rear end and still have great First gear acceleration. Specialized manifold for 10L80,10L90, 8L90, 6L80, and 6L90 transmissions, allowing you to connect -6AN fittings to your cooler lines. From the workshop on ongoing projects and more, and where the new images are added afterwards. With REVolution, your transmission becomes an integral, critical part of your combination, allowing you to maximize its performance using either the Quick 6, Quick 4, or Quick 2 controller. The 6L80E went mostly into large vehicles with V8 motors. 6L80, 6L90 Transmission Tech Advisory: Consider an Updated Converter in Your Next Rebuild We all know that automatic transmission failures can have many root causes. I believe the last digits of the model number are the power rating capabilities of the transmission. Online Buyer's Guide Is the out put shaft and splines on a 4L80E the same as a turbo 400? This suggests that the idler gear and ball bearing assembly has a tight interference fit to the stator shaft support housing. For all practical purposes, these two transmissions are completely interchangeable. Convert your american classic car with more modern technology. Hi Jeff, I have a 2016 Silverado with the 5.3 and the 8 speed transmission. _____ HBM 2016 2SS A8 NPP Pray . Made of billet aluminum with included swivel -6 AN fittings with 3/8" barbs. This is a completely new and different transmission compared to the 4L80E. That certainly holds true for the 6L80, 6L90. Maximum engine input torque for the 6L80 is 440 ft. lbs. That way you get a longer service life, along with a 3-year/Unlimited Mile Nationwide Warranty.. With its 2017-2018 heralding, Ford has equipped 3 domestic models with the 10R80 transmission. Since 2003, Jeff has held various positions at Car Craft (including editor), has written books on small block Chevy performance, and even cultivated an impressive collection of 1965 and 1966 Chevelles. Recommended fluid is Dexron VI and it typically accepts a 10 quart thru 12.6 quart fill depending on its application. This transmission makes an excellent conversion transmission due to its adaptability into most Jeeps longer than CJ5s. Maximum shift speed is 6500 RPM. As an example, combining the TCI Six-speeds 2.97:1 First gear with a 3.50:1 rear gear ratio is equal to a traditional TH-400 (or stock 4L80E) with a 4.19:1 rear gear. It's RPO code is "MYC" and it is domestically manufactured in GM's Ypsilanti, Michigan plant. Aisin AY6 6-speed longitudinal manual made by Aisin. It is a heavy-duty version of the 6L80 six-speed automatic, with a strengthened input gearset which has two additional pinion gears for six total, and a strengthened output gearset, that uses wider gears than the 6L80. However, at light pedal or road load, single-step upshifts will occur. Thanks for the question! Looking at the two different front covers from the OUTSIDE, they are very similar, with just a few minor differences (Figure 2). None of the clutch packs can engage, and there is no fail-safe operation. I see where Summit Racing lists a TCI transmission that was originally a 4L80E but they list it as a six-speed transmission. They can then use these unseen components throughout their different product lines and improve their profit margins through the lower shared development costs. The TMBX and the JMBX have similar covers and use the same woven carbon friction material, yet the JMBX fails catastrophically at a very high rate and the TMBX cover rarely fails. Cart How do Sonnax components prevent the failure that plagues these units? Starting in 1996, many 4L60E transmissions employed a bolt-on bellhousing. A more recent issue with these units is pump drive gear failure (Figure 7). The HydraMatic can be adapted to the popular Jeep transfer cases, including the: Essentially all factory GM 4wd applications available with an OEM configured 6L80 have adapters and transfer cases that are prohibitively long for a Jeep, and transfer cases whose sizes and gearing fall short of desirable for most Jeep applications. Learn how your comment data is processed. The GM 10L80 Hydra-Matic transmission is one such hybrid component that General Motors jointly developed with, wait for it, the Ford Motor Company! Ford is currently using this unit in the following vehicles: The 10R80 has ten forward speeds, one reverse speed produced through the following components: The 10R80 utilizes six shift solenoids that are listed by the factory as A-F and are linear force solenoids (Figure 1). 2nazty New Member. 3) 6L80E with fixed output flange is about 2 1/2" shorter than 4L60E and about 3 1/2" shorter than 200-4R. The bottom line: The very thin (.020") woven carbon friction material cant survive the way the JMBX piston applies. Why the thin woven carbon clutch doesnt typically fail in the 4L60-E TMBX. Why the Sonnax forged covers and pistons solve the problem. Conceptually, locking the converter should help the mph trap speed by reducing slippage. But once he had the parts and the job was complete, the noise issue was resolved, confirming the cause to be the idler gear spinning around the ball bearings outer race. Bolt and gasket inlcuded. Chevrolet, Buick & GM Engines into the Jeep Ford 1.8L - 2.5L "Pinto" Engines into the Jeep 4L60E (and its tougher 4L65 & 4L70 variants). Dissecting the E-Ray, the First Hybrid AWD Vette. RECALLS! Indirectly affects shift pressure control. The 6L80 (and similar 6L90) is a six-speed automatic transmission built by General Motors at its Willow Run Transmission plant in Ypsilanti, MI.It was introduced in late 2005, and is very similar in design to the smaller 6L45/6L50, produced at GM Powertrain in Strasbourg, France.It features clutch to clutch shifting, eliminating the one-way clutches used on older transmission designs. What is most welcome about it is that it is a very durable, functional and impressive transmission assembly and appears to have a terrific prospect with GM and the aftermarket community. Newer to the transmission world is its use of direct clutch-to-clutch shifting and the total lack of bands. At the current time, the only way to use a GM 6 or 8-speed automatic is to tie it in with a GM engine like the LS3 and use the engine controller to work with transmission. Its valuable to know that the debris you are seeing in the pans of all of those 6L80 and 6L90 units is very often from converter failure. The 6L80 / 6L90 uses three-way solenoids and variable bleed solenoids for improved shift quality. Account. Now it has RPM Level 6 but if a 6L80E or 6L90E swap was introduced or even the 8 and 10 transmissions it would be a game changer. The solenoids are calibrated from the factory and are not all the same. It employs an even deeper First gear ratio of 4.02:1 with tighter gear splits but does not apply an overdrive for subsequent gears. The thought is that the bowl shape of the TMBX is better suited towards a more even apply, and because its thinner, the TMBX piston has the ability to flex and better conform to the front cover. The small 10-speed gear steps allow the engine speed to drop to lower values than it would in the 6-speed transmission, providing for the best fuel economy. Then, because the six-speed is splitting ratios, the rpm drop between gears is less because TCI has turned this into a five-speed automatic with an overdrive. For now, the bulk of reported cases are related to diesel vehicles. Related Articles Diagnosing Chrysler transmission max line pressure and P0933, P0869, P1745 codes How to service the Honda 10-speed transmission Solving, This article applies to Chrysler RFE, RLE and TES transmissions that utilize pressure control solenoids (PCS) for line pressure control. The 4L60E was the first generation of transmission to work with a Gen III Vortec or LS motor. But in the 6L80 JMBX, we started to look very closely at the converter itself to see if we could determine a root cause. TH400, TH200-4R, TH700-R4, 4L60, 4L60E (without converter), 6L80E Fluid capacity with 258 mm converter, 6L80E Fluid capacity with 300 mm converter, 6L90E Fluid capacity with 300 mm converter. However some 2wd vans and HD truck versions had a36 spline. The height of the standpipe tube attached inside the transmission to the bottom of the pan sets the oil level. The 6L80 was approved for use in these vehicles weighing up to 8600 lbs. For a type B code, the fault must be present after two consecutive ignition cycles, otherwise, the MIL will not illuminate (however, a pending code will store). Need to convert 10L80 rom 4wd to 2wd. Pre-Owned. To handle the increased output torque capacity, the 6L90 departed from the long-standing GM 32 spline specification output shaft of the 6L80 and went to larger diameter 29 spline for most truck applications. The source of the contamination, however, is not readily apparent. Also, Im not sure if the trans will allow converter lockup at WOT. The taper may exist so that the clutch surface goes flat when the cover is welded together were not sure. 6L80/90 - 8L90 Floor Tap Shifter Kit. What is a good torque converter today for a 4.3 high output 4 wheel drive Blazer? The 6L90 has a beefier set of gears and many internal upgrades. Upon a test drive and a scan, code P0741 is noted and the percentage of TCC slip shows to be way out of range. August 8, 2022. In 2018 and later models with the transmission warmer mounted to the transmission, there can be a concern with coolant leaking under the vehicle. or gross weight of 14,000 lbs. If concerns are still present, it may be necessary to service or replace the valve body assembly (Figure 6). A P59 PCM controlled both the engine and the transmission. Internal hydraulic leakage, hard part failures and contaminated/failed solenoids are all issues that can plague units, some more than others. Ford is currently using this unit in the following vehicles: 2017- Ford F-150 2018- Ford Mustang 2018- Ford Expedition 2018- Lincoln Navigator 2019- Ford Ranger 2019- Ford Everest I believe this would allow a lower horsepower engine to perform similarly to a higher HP engine mated to a TH400. After graduating from Iowa State University with a journalism degree in 1978, he combined his two passions: cars and writing. I would like to keep the turbo small so it would spool extremely quickly and the compression high to be responsive. If the transmission is in the vehicle you can use the RPO tag in the glove compartment. I didnt realize that it came equiped with such a lame gear ration 3.08. Im thinking 3.73. if the car would be faster with the 6 speed auto vs the 10 speed auto. 2) Trans vertical position is the same on 200-4R,700R4,4L60,4L65,70E,6L80E. It would be a huge mistake not toAFM is garbage. The 10L80 transmission is a 10-speed longitudinal automatic transmission that was designed to operate near the efficiency of a CVT while improving fuel economy in GM high-horsepower vehicles highlighted by the Camaro, Suburban, Tahoe, and Escalade. The complaint is usually associated with the vehicle sitting for a while (after it has been running at operating temperature). Now he serves as a regular contributor to OnAllCylinders. If you have any questions that I may be able to help you with, drop a comment or contact me. So its no wonder that the new cars accelerate so welltheyve got a ridiculously deep overall First gear ratio and reduced rpm drops between the gear changes. Torque Converter 260 mm with Electronic Controlled Capacity Clutch (10L80 ECCC) This is an immediate DTC that effects emissions. The 6L50, 6L80, 6L90, 8L45, 8L90, 10L60, 10L80, & 10L90 transmissions from MY2015 to current are filled through a port in the bottom of the oil pan.
Isbe Instructional Minutes, Articles OTHER