And I mean its quite a few cofounders. For us, I think they fully understand the entrepreneurial journey and were really excited to have them on board. I kind of looked through in Crunchbase which connections I have into which fund. They are brilliant about. Township Of Ocean Police Department. It was just purely hustling my network for six months to find people who are really great cultural fit but also have very different skill sets to the one I have. Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. Rocketreach finds email, phone & social media for 450M+ professionals. So in the first two years, Zumper is now [07:52] $90 million in capital. You can set the expectations and then see what happens and if its not a good fit upfront, you can go with the different option on the table. So Anthemos, theres always a first time and you know I guess this is the first time in the history of the DealMakers Show that Im able to interview someone that has been involve on the M&A but more on the buy side. Were growing very quickly but none of that was true obviously in the first two years. I was really impressed when because its not hard, its almost impossible to land VC such as Kleiner Perkins on literally your first financing round, the seed round. They are brilliant about. Zumper Board Member Related Hubs So paradoxically, I dont think the core DNA of a companys culture is built at ski tracks or offsite. "These markets had a huge net migration from New York and California, and they have held up," he says. So tell me your story a little bit here, Anthemos. I met Russel who [04:01] engineering products through just the personal connections in London. I mean if you could give some kind of like tips you know both fronts it would be really fantastic. Zumper which is a little bigger in terms of audience now caters more to urban professionals moving within cities. A lot of that is in the bank. Got it. I think its easy not to set those expectations and get caught in the relationship where neither side is being clear on what they expect. How do you take a company with those tractions, 10 million in revenue. Retention is something I think about every day. Zumper which is a little bigger in terms of audience now caters more to urban professionals moving within cities. But I will say the one thing is true is that you always raise on momentum. I'm so proud of my wife Lucy Georgiades and her cofounder Lindsey Nehls on launching their business Elevate Academy today. Got it. Yeah. So cofounders are difficult especially if youre not technical as really hard to find a good technical cofounder but the great thing is once you do and it takes a long time, they are able to attract the next generation of talent in to the company and thats how you kind of build your engineering team out. Your third month is getting kind of diligence done and getting the wires in to the door. Zumper CEO and co-founder May 2012 Board and Advisor Roles Number of Current Board & Advisor Roles 1 Anthemos Georgiades is the Board Member at Zumper. A lot of business schools was how to make decisions with imperfect information. Anthemos Georgiades is the co-founder and CEO of Zumper. It was incredibly difficult. He remains a huge Tottenham Hotspur fan, and wakes up painfully every Saturday morning to tune into the live English soccer games. So M&A are strategic [33:48]. A lot of it was completely bottom up. In the early days, youre going to need to take all the capital you can get. Anthemos Georgiades is the co-founder and CEO of Zumper, the largest startup in the rental industry, used by more than 26 million renters last year alone. Categories . And so back to your point, yes, we want investors who are supportive of the fact that we didnt try to monetize the platform for the first three years because it would have created a barrier to entry. So I learned a lot from a few companies that I loved, a few companies that I thought are doing crazy things I learned so much. It is not closely married to [14:55] and thats where its still on [14:58] I think Silicon Valley has a long way to go where when I got my first introductions to VCs to Kleiner, to Andreseen, to Graylock, to NEA, it often came through my graduate school network where someone was like, Hey, this guy is leaving HBS. I mean I called it like a cheat [33:33] my team. We both had ideas to be entrepreneurs but neither of us have the guts to actually go for it. And so I didnt really think about it too often because this is kind of 15 years ago but then I moved to another six or seven times into an apartment rentals in London, in Boston, in New York and the process is so bad every time, not just in searching but also in actually like getting the apartment. And for you I guess personally and professionally because I think they both come together, so how has your leadership and management skills changed over the time from leading the company of lets say four to ten folks initially to a company of over a hundred employees? Had worked at the Boston Consulting Group. When you look your cofounders, your team in the eye and you know theyre ready to go and theyre resilient and they come back in to build and try the next thing and youve kind of worked out together this is part of the game. But oh we must have had like 20 persons or 20 people say not now or later. At Zumper, based in San Francisco, he leads the company in its mission to make renting an apartment as easy as booking a hotel. Alejandro: Got it. Great question. I met Russel who [04:01] engineering products through just the personal connections in London. It was like $46 million. And were just a little earlier than obviously a public company so our gross is spikier. Youll get terms sheets and yeses hopefully quicker than that but this process takes a while and as the money increases and a few rounds become more complicated, it can take more than three months as well. For a winning deck, take a look at the pitch deck template created by Silicon Valley legend, Peter Thiel (see it here) that I recently covered. It has to be me and thats how I started the company six years ago after business school. Alejandro: And did you diversify this responsibility with the other cofounders or was there one of you guys that has always been leading the chart on the financing side? So thats how Zumper got started. So seed, series A, series B, series C, I was always the point person in the fundraise. Since 2012, Georgiades has grown Zumper to over 200 employees, 178 million annual visits, and raised $178 million in venture capital for the company. Like many of our most successful entrepreneurs, Anthemos Georgiades was drawn into startup life to solving a burning problem. Well, today's guest noticed that experience and wanted to improve it. Yeah. And then my other cofounder Kurt Taylor I met through his mother who was an [04:43] and it was another example of just pure hustle. Thats quite motivating for people. How autonomous can people be at the junior levels? Alejandro: Fantastic. Weve only been working with Axle Springer for four months now but they are fantastic. Were going to charge you per lead or for the smaller landlords we charge them if theyre [11:15] for the transaction. Alejandro: Got it. Got it. After that, it changed to more consumer. And in terms of preparation, Anthemos, how has the preparation like preparing before going to market to start engaging investors, how have you seen with your business, with Zumper, how have you seen that changed over time as the rounds were maturing? So strategically that was a good marriage where they had a great consumer brand and we have really fantastic supply side inventory. The other large investor in this round [20:05] scale so once you have product market set, how do you scale that? So M&A are strategic [33:48]. Youre exactly right. Alejandro: Really, really nice to have you here and excited for the chat that we have ahead here. Got it. Got it. For Zumper's Georgiades, many Florida markets, such as Fort Lauderdale, Miami, Orlando, and Tampa, have been the big pandemic winners. So we solved it to the first two years purely by getting landlords on board through various kind of product strategy and so our growth cuts for the first two years that we raised the [27:41] were purely about landlords and listing. So one is weve always promoted within so whenever we needed a role, we always prefer to promote someone instead of hiring from outside. Youre supposed to try six things that dont work. I have no experience doing that. So I guess what was the timeline of this C round compared to perhaps your seed round of 2012? And we were talking about the $46 million round which was the C round, C as in cat and basically what you were talking about I mean what Ive seen is that you guys have shifted a little bit the strategy. Likewise. A lot of it was completely bottom up. Culture is everything and so investing in people making sure I as the CEO spend a lot of time as much as possible with people who dont report to me is absolutely critical and that is ultimately like the fabric on how most companies are run. How many landlords did we have on the site? At the end of the day though, whether its senior people, junior people, interns who we want to bring back is all under pinned by culture. Whats your story and most importantly, how did you get started with the entrepreneurial bug? So I guess for a marketplace or lets say for the people that are listening to us like what kind of metrics do you think for the most part if were talking about hyper growth companies, like they should be a little bit more mindful about? Try for free at rocketreach.co We saw it would take three to six months to integrate Pat Mapper and their backend that engineering project we worked really hard and quickly just over a year to integrate so we underestimated like how much work was required to integrate them by 3x. Of course. Yeah. Originally from London, he has an MBA from Harvard Business School, MPhil from the University of Cambridge, and BA from the University of Oxford. So for the business, Anthemos, how much capital have you guys raised today? She was our original CPO and after the series A, she moved on to roller, another company and we promoted someone internally to CPO. Yeah. I think the startups end up wasting a lot of cash that could really extend runway but thats a different conversation. Zumper CEO & Co-Founder Anthemos Georgiades makes renting an apartment as easy as booking a hotel, shares insights on monetizing marketplaces, diversifying r. Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. His passion for relieving the stress for others in apartment rentals has given birth to a venture which has now raised $90 million, has experienced tremendous growth, and boasts a VC line up of some of the most prized investors in Silicon Valley. Keeping good lines of communication open can solve many landlord/tenant problems. To give you odds, at the seed stage and the series A stage of growth cuts, all about supply side where a two sided marketplace chicken an egg, on day zero you have no renters and no landlords, how do you solve that? And it is the culture that keeps people here, not the compensation or anything else. Anthemos Georgiades is the CEO of <a href="http://zumperblog.kinsta.cloud">Zumper</a>. Well help you prequalify renters and actually get the renter in to a lease, signing the documents, paying the first month deposit but well charge you a percentage of the lease fairly. And so I didnt really think about it too often because this is kind of 15 years ago but then I moved to another six or seven times into an apartment rentals in London, in Boston, in New York and the process is so bad every time, not just in searching but also in actually like getting the apartment. You just cant get spooked. I was also doing, Ive been doing marketplaces for I think like 10 years now and I remember in the last company, I would go and meet with investors and they kept asking me for the chicken and the egg. And then at business school, I think the single biggest thing I learned through the case study method which is how they teach it at Harvard Business School but I think its true. So seed, series A, series B, series C, I was always the point person in the fundraise. So we want to be the first ever kind of full stack rental platform for long term leases and we monetize that two ways. But oh we must have had like 20 persons or 20 people say not now or later. So it doesnt always work out and I think thats fine. At college in the UK, Ive had like multiple [00:58] renting apartments. For me, its Zumper, an apartment rental platform. Anthemos Georgiades CEO and co-founder. Yeah. Its really built in the dark days of when stuff is really difficult and I think Zumpers culture now is we have a lot of users still remembers and its a testament to those dark days and we never take anything for granted. Culture is everything and so investing in people making sure I as the CEO spend a lot of time as much as possible with people who dont report to me is absolutely critical and that is ultimately like the fabric on how most companies are run. They were [sexy 23:47] company and really fantastic fundraisers but the rounds just take a long time, due diligence take a long time. And so just be prepared that however smart, however many smart people have looked the deal and thought about whether it will work, it always take a little bit more time than you think it will to integrate because theres always some gremlin kind of hiding in the works that youre going to find. They were [sexy 23:47] company and really fantastic fundraisers but the rounds just take a long time, due diligence take a long time. Its hard. No. Its so hard to get marketplaces liquidity so correct, the beautiful thing as you know is when you have it, it took us three years to get to that, it just runs and you just grow naturally when you have both sides but its so hard to get to it. In the first two or three years you will kill your marketplace if you create any barriers to entry from either side. Your email address is 100% safe from spam! Anthemos was an undergrad at Oxford when he noticed how problematic renting an apartment . Youll get terms sheets and yeses hopefully quicker than that but this process takes a while and as the money increases and a few rounds become more complicated, it can take more than three months as well. Its just part of the game and it doesnt [24:30]. Alejandro: Got it. Whats your story and most importantly, how did you get started with the entrepreneurial bug? Oh yeah, on the seed round back in 2012, we had probably five investors come in to the seed round so we kind of had five yeses who put in small checks. So I saw for example Axle Springer which is you know more kind of like the corporate. I think if you set these expectations from the very beginning that are super important. Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. We saw it would take three to six months to integrate Pat Mapper and their backend that engineering project we worked really hard and quickly just over a year to integrate so we underestimated like how much work was required to integrate them by 3x. So I guess like I have one thing to follow up on this. Your third month is getting kind of diligence done and getting the wires in to the door. And so I wouldnt be too pressured. Got it. Make sure tenants understand why things are . It is not suppose to be easy. So you acquire not long ago Pat Mapper and how did this come together? Raising money first, marketplace businesses is still really difficult and Ive raised $90 million and Im still saying it is difficult. So when you go in to a fundraising in terms of preparation the most important thing is that your last six months are great and your most important metrics are all growing really nicely so kind of five, six months in a row that is a fantastic story to tell to an investor. So yes, we have a great cap table. glendale, az police activity today; archer lodge middle school calendar. Yeah, I mean BCG I think you get access to the 23 year olds CEOs who had been working for 40 years and kind of crazy in consulting you take the shortcut in your careers to being in the board room. And then as we looked at the C round, Axle Springer are fantastic good example [19:59]. So I as British person moving to Silicon Valley in 2012 I have never run a startup before. I knew the CEO for a while. He's raised $39.2 million in venture capital, grown the team to 70+, and completed the acquisition of apartment search platform PadMapper. Its a Greek name, British accent. And at one point I just told one I just feel like I want to step on the egg and shoot the chicken because it was so repetitive. To give you odds, at the seed stage and the series A stage of growth cuts, all about supply side where a two sided marketplace chicken an egg, on day zero you have no renters and no landlords, how do you solve that? The second one is have a vision and a mission that people agree with and we all wanted to [37:13] this vision make renting an apartment as easy as booking a hotel. At series A, you got to show product market set in a sub vertical. Think Masterclass for Management. His passion for relieving the stress for others in . In many instances, really acquisitions are great to either feel growth on the company itself, either on the product or perhaps by adding a great talent, but unfortunately many M&A transactions fail really on the integration side of things. So it doesnt always work out and I think thats fine. They may not understand marketplace as well as you but they may be able to bring a brilliant way of thinking about how to bring the supply on [30:20]. Its hard. It just really helps to divide and conquer like that while I was meeting new investors again. This pellet stove is a good heating solution for a smaller rather than a . Theres never like an exact number you need like when Uber raised money or you know Zillow raised money, theres never like a number they have to be at. So you kind of just have to [25:29] but just to be clear yeah, we had far more nos than yeses at the seed round. It was not something Ive really ever thought about before. It looks better for investors and it makes your life easier. And then when I moved out to America, Russel was software engineer at Google and I had no technical background so I basically hit up my network for anyone with a technical background living in the US who might be interested in joining and Russel and I really hit it off and he was the perfect cofounder. And frankly, the process is a pain in the ass. Like many of our most successful entrepreneurs. When people ask me what Im most nervous about its how to keep our amazing team together, a couple of tactics and then one thing that really worked. We both wanted to be entrepreneurs. Had worked in politics. So paradoxically, I dont think the core DNA of a companys culture is built at ski tracks or offsite. anthemos georgiades net worth; wedding max minghella wife; private beach airbnb california; antique english double barrel shotguns; tuscany faucet cartridge removal; primeweld cut 60 machine torch. Then behind the scenes, Zumper will close the transaction with the landlord and set the renter up with kind of rent payment. They wanted to close apartments like they book a hotel and so took the status of like 35 different apartments we leased using the technology in San Francisco to VCs and said, Hey, were really going to rebuild all of this but heres some data that shows this really can work at scale, and thats how we raised the first million dollars from some of the names that you mentioned. It is ultimately the culture. Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. Saying that, I have connections through both business school and previous people that have gone through BCG venture capital and most of your listeners and entrepreneurs will know so much of this is about like getting warm introductions to VCs so I did have a couple of cheats to get in through the network or through the BCG network. If you guys are Zumper website, you can kind of kind at zumper.com the Contact Us or on Twitter I am just @anthemos, A-N-T-H-E-M-O-S on Twitter and yeah, I respond to people. And you know I think hiring is definitely tough but retaining is even more complicated so is there any things that you for example seen yourself that work on that front? Got it. Got it. Got it. Got it. Well, Anthemos, it has been a pleasure to have you on the show. Well, first of all, your point about quashing the egg and shooting the chicken. And so I finally just gave in and thought no one is going to build this. So it was never I want to be an entrepreneur journey. How does the day to day at Zumper work? So you still have to land it and once youre on the door it doesnt matter where you come from you have to have something good. Meaning hey, we send you a ton of leads this month that close in to leases. Got it. ! Obviously they knew and I think for us it was like telling Axle and the rest of our investors that there are going to be months where we massively beat plans and there will be months where were behind plans. So watching board members from the early investments are [19:38] who now runs Good Water but was originally Kleiner and then Eric [19:42] from Kleiner and theyre both experts at product market set. Alejandro: Got it and before we actually dive in to the journey here, so consulting and business school, this is a few things that I typically hear so from some of our other guests. He discovered that the marketplace doesnt work for renters, and the idea for Zumper was born with the goal of evening the playing field and increasing transparency in the marketplace. Because I speak with a ton of founders that are perhaps opening up the possibility of bringing on corporations and I think that you need to really do it right. So I guess what was the timeline of this C round compared to perhaps your seed round of 2012? It was not something Ive really ever thought about before. And your cap table I mean as I was reviewing I just felt as I was looking at the Oscars of Silicon Valley, the red carpet. Now we have supply so the six months curve at the series B was all about users and millions of monthly users and then at the series C it was much more revenue curve. The second one is have a vision and a mission that people agree with and we all wanted to [37:13] this vision make renting an apartment as easy as booking a hotel. Retention is something I think about every day. Get Anthemos Georgiades's email address (a*****@zumper.com) and phone number (646398..) at RocketReach. You start to build depth and management structures. So that was great. The one unifying theme in every fundraising Ive run is momentum. So one is weve always promoted within so whenever we needed a role, we always prefer to promote someone instead of hiring from outside. How many listings do we have on the site? You can set the expectations and then see what happens and if its not a good fit upfront, you can go with the different option on the table. Thats just part of the game. So we have several million users using our platform every month now which is great and next year we wanted tens of millions of users a month and were poised to doing that. Anthemos Georgiades. Alejandro: So Im completely there with you. Alejandro: Got it. Got it. Rental listing startup with more than 26 million users. In the early days you as the CEO you are the fundraiser, you are the effective CFO, youre the head of sales and you kind of have to do the whole thing. I dont think theres a startup I could have launched that taught me more. So I guess for a marketplace or lets say for the people that are listening to us like what kind of metrics do you think for the most part if were talking about hyper growth companies, like they should be a little bit more mindful about? So for Zumper our vision as I mentioned was to make renting an apartment as easy as booking a hotel and so instead of going in with just an idea, I built like a really crappy version of the end game that I wanted to build. Well, Anthemos, it has been a pleasure to have you on the show. Georgiades founded Zumper after his own . You just get to this kind of motion of you all feel the same and you kind of pull in the same direction. Could you meet him? And so whereas that doesnt guarantee any success we obviously have to have really good numbers and a really good story to tell them. Never thought Id be an entrepreneur. Yeah. We also actually had a really wonderful fourth cofounder whos no longer with us. So the majority of that is still in the bank but yeah, we raised money in capital [12:00]. Thats your job. And so when you think about AB testing frameworks, you think about how many started [03:43] that is a [03:44] grad school taught me. Well help you prequalify renters and actually get the renter in to a lease, signing the documents, paying the first month deposit but well charge you a percentage of the lease fairly. So Anthemos, whats the business model here? I think if you hire four cofounders like yourself, thats difficult and luckily we didnt have that problem. Meaning hey, we send you a ton of leads this month that close in to leases. I mean to a point network gets you an intro but a lot of intros are 10 minute meetings where the VC immediately decides its not for them which is totally fair. You always have more nos that more yeses in fundraising but it was ultimately about just hustling my network as much as possible. So we bought them. Of course and I agree with you there, Anthemos. Its a Greek name, British accent. Look how quickly our revenue are scaling. I mean youre doing various jobs, head of sales, head of finance, head of fundraising, head of like DZ. I know entrepreneurs who spend nine months raising their rounds which is a long time but they got great rounds done. So we want to be the first ever kind of full stack rental platform for long term leases and we monetize that two ways. Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. Remember to unlock for free the pitch deck template that is being used by founders around the world to raise millions below. In terms of investors, I guess two comments. You rarely have enough data to make the absolutely correct decision and I think a lot of businesses fail especially start ups when they dont make decisions fast enough and in business schools, the case study methods taught me how to feel confident in making decisions without perfect information and how to use data to kind of then review once youve launched, whether it was right or wrong. Theyre struggling to kind of grow their audience because they didnt have enough listings whereas Zumper at the getgo we had a lot of unique landlords on the platform that no one else had. They are the two ways that Zumper currently monetizes them and there are two folks that [11:35]. We raised like a million dollars in seed money, that was running out so we tried various things that didnt work and I think the fabric of our culture that is still true today when we have a hundred people is built in the dark days and those days where your stuff is not working, your users arent growing, and how you look at your teammates and how you guys turn up on a Monday morning after a really crappy week the week before where maybe someone quit or maybe the metrics went south. Fantastic. Its really built in the dark days of when stuff is really difficult and I think Zumpers culture now is we have a lot of users still remembers and its a testament to those dark days and we never take anything for granted. Anthemos Georgiades: So Zumper is the vision for the company is to make renting an apartment as easy as booking a hotel. In terms of the dynamics, I think in the early days, you kind of through osmosis graduate towards like the things that are important. So what was that process like you were talking about, yes, your network of Harvard but can you share with us like what was that process of landing Kleiner on your seed round? And it was just [22:11] during the process that its a startup, were at growth stage but not to expect to be able to predict our courses like that public company again. We have like four people at the company for the first year or maybe five for the first year and so theres so much to do and theres so little time and few resources that you actually theres no real intellectual whiteboarding session that you do to carve out rose. Alejandro: Just out of curiosity, Anthemos, like how many nos did you get for example on your seed round if you have to count it? Theyre both incredibly smart as are my executive team who are also like critical to fundraise where Ill go in and sell the vision often alone. Oh wow, good question. I guess the question that I would ask you and perhaps some advice for some of those that are listening, that are building a business that is more around the network effects, the marketplaces, should they walk the other way if the investor is asking too much about revenue early on on the financing cycles? Anthemos Georgiades: Oh yeah, on the seed round back in 2012, we had probably five investors come in to the seed round so we kind of had five yeses who put in small checks. My friend have had to camp out overnight outside the property management office to get access to the new apartment and this is [01:09] you know things coming online, you can order a cab via phone, you can book a hotel online. So you know I think Axle Springer very used to appraising companies that match their scale. We want investors who look at $100 million in revenue as table stakes but they wont agree to a billion. So the series B, weve done story now look at how quickly the renters are growing on the platform.
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